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A question of artists' permissions

I want to avoid doing something wrong, so I'm posting here looking for opinions and advice from artists for a very specific project I'd like to undertake. This requires some backstory and context, however, so bear with me.

I've never had a personal character in the fandom, and consequently I have a really hard time knowing what to ask for in con badges or commissions. So, lacking creative thought, generally I never buy any, settling instead for the occasional print. Then one day my local art supply store started selling teeny tiny gag sketchbooks attached to keychains. I took off the keychains, and voila, instant tiny sketchbook! And it didn't matter that I had no idea what to ask people to draw anymore, I simply said, "Draw whatever fits."

Over the years I've accumulated close to just over 100 of these tiny sketches. (The sketchbook pages are about 1.4 x 1.8 inches big.) Some drawings are quick, cheap magic-marker doodles, some use incredibly fine-tipped pencils or inks, some are in color, and so on. I insisted on PG but there's the occasional unwanted boob in there. Some were asked for and some were unasked for. ("Oh, your sketchbook? I passed it down the table to some other artists.") Some were freebies and some I paid for ($1-$5), but I never kept a record of it.

Now so far this is all fine and dandy. I stopped collecting the sketches last year, and I now have an eclectic set of tiny drawings in several of these tiny sketchbooks. (Which weren't made for repeated handling so a lot of the pages are now falling out.) And recently I thought, can I actually *do* anything with these? And then I thought, hey, yeah - I could mount them and donate it to the MFF charity auction.

Which brings me to the reason for this post. Can I mount these all together, label them with the artists' names, and submit it to the charity auction without the original artists' permissions? It's all original work, but every artist went into it thinking it was a cute gag, as did I; I never thought to do this ahead of time, so distribution rights and such were never discussed. Does the charity angle make any difference?

Doing it without asking permission is the easy thing to do, but feels, well, scummy. But the alternative is a frightening and daunting task of having to individually ask dozens and dozens of artists, none of whom I know how to contact offhand, but some of which I know by reputation are either very reclusive, or are slow and unresponsive, or have left the fandom in an angry huff.

Ideas, suggestions, advice, strategies? Lay it on me, folks, and thanks in advance for your time and consideration!

Some artists don't mind of not having their permission asked as long your actions don't have a mean end (like selling for your own profit, that would be wrong). Other are very attached to their artwork and don't even care if it's for good reasons, you totally need their permission.
Since it's for charity, I don't see why it would be wrong, plus they are tiny sketches that any artist can do anywhere, that means it should not have such personal value as a normal draw done in a sketch pad.

But once again, the opinion varies from artist to artist. A good idea would be if you did a list with all the artists, put it together with that story and ask if it was cool or not, then the artists would contact you replying yes or no. The only problem with this is that not all artists will see this, then if you go forward with your idea one of those artists would find out about it when it's too late to say no, then all the OMG LEGAL PLZ problems would appear.

This is a tricky problem indeed. Well, I gave my opinion, but you better wait for the opinion of the professional artists out there. :X

It's for charity.
Those artists should be really mean to say something rude for you.

Personally I think that really great and good artist do have better things to do than to search who is selling their tinny tinny freeby or other small doodle work. Moreover if you add their names - then there should be quite a nice advertisment for them ;D

My first inclination is to think "hooo boy this could cause potential problems", but then there's the fact that you yourself will not be making any money by essentially 'reselling' this artwork. But at the same time, for charity or not, you did not ask the artists permission to resell it, no matter what the cause. I think its safe to not do it personally, especially because though I, myself, would be okay with it, there are a lot of people who /would/ mind, and you would have to go email each and every artist. I wonder if its possible to just sell off the art from the artists who give you a "yes"? It will be daunting, yes, and you may not get all of them to agree, sure, but its better than just doing it and risking the anger. Some is better than none.

Now here is a subject that doesn't pop up in fandom very often, and I always wondered about this.

Personally, if I did it for someone else, and they paid me, or I put it in their book, it's theirs at that point. I don't claim any rights to work that I don't personally own. That said, very few artist actually talk about rights at the table (DH Stien is a notable exception on her commission sheet, she actually has a small contract explaining what rights you have to the work of the commission). I would imagine that artists would have different points of view depending on how vain or how popular they have become. There really needs to be a standardized rule in fandom about the Fan Sketch...

Well, in any case, I don't think you'll get into any real trouble, given that it's a charity auction, but maybe some artists with more at risk then me should figure out what rights a sketchbook commission actually gives. I think that this is going to be an important issue somewhere down the line, if it hadn't already became a issue during the occasional "They're stealing my work" cries that pop up every now and then.

I've never understood why people get up in arms when someone resells a commissioned or purchased image. Reselling the physical image in no way violates distribution rights, and the person DID buy the art.

Wouldn't saying you can't resell art you've bought be like saying it's unethical to sell a car you bought?

I can't think of any legal reason you can't resell those sketches. It's not like you're making prints. And although some may not agree, I can't think of any reason it would be unethical.

Keovi - Totally, but that doesn't mean there will be any less drama from those who are either uneducated on the subject or are educated but choose to ignore facts anyways.

Even when someone is in the right, the stress surrounding the issue can be enough to really put a sour taste in one's mouth.

I believe I did a sketch for you in one of these at some point (I think it might have been EF?), so you have my permission, already. ;)

I don't see a problem with reselling them. As others have said, you are not making prints. Not to mention it's for charity! Any artist who will have a problem with this is a real piece of work.

And it may or may not cause a bit of drama, but so what? Why, does the fandom have different rules of conduct than anywhere else in society? If you buy a painting anywhere else you will have no problem reselling it, why should it be any different here?

Thanks everyone for your advice and responses! From here and other forums, the consensus seems to be that it's a perfectly fine project to do without seeking permission because they're originals and it's going to charity. If they were reproductions, that's a legal no-no. Or if I was collecting freebies with the deliberate intention of selling them for my personal profit, that's also not so nice. In any case, I'm feeling very much relieved! Now all I have to do is learn about mounting artwork and adhesives and such. (Ack!) I may also pop up on message boards in the near future asking if anyone can identify signatures and things.

Copyright is about that, the right to copy. Marvel might get unpleasant if you try drawing Spiderman stories, or printing off copies of one of their comics, but the actual comic book is yours, to keep or resell as you see fit. Likewise, whatever issues there may be about making reproductions, the actual piece of art is yours, to dispose of as you wish.

When I draw in people's sketchbooks, I usually try to follow the theme of the book. If it's a raunchy book, then I will draw raunchy. I feel pretty safe in doing this because it's in someone's book; they might show it to some friends, but generally, people don't scan the drawings and post them around the internet.

I know it's a foolish gamble, but I relate this story to illustrate why some artists might make drama over reselling their art.

But then I have friends who did draw something raunchy that they thought was going to be private, and it ended up getting posted on FA.

I also purchased a raunchy print from someone, kept it for awhile, then sold it, and the artist got *really* upset because he didn't want anyone to know he drew that sort of thing...but neglected to tell me about it. Naturally I wanted to make sure my item for sale reached the broadest possible audience, so I advertised everywhere I could. Whooooo boy.

I second what Keovi said. People in the "fine arts" world sell and resell art all the time, and they *do* profit from it. As long as you're not altering the image and claiming it as your own work, I don't see the problem at all. My only concern when I do a commission is that the buyer understands I retain the right to publish the work, in my gallery or portfolio or whatever. What they want to do with their commission after the fact is neither my business nor something I care about. At that point, they own the art, and if they want to sell it it's fine by me. Just don't say you drew it, that's all I ask.

Keovi said: I've never understood why people get up in arms when someone resells a commissioned or purchased image. Reselling the physical image in no way violates distribution rights, and the person DID buy the art.

Wouldn't saying you can't resell art you've bought be like saying it's unethical to sell a car you bought?

I can't think of any legal reason you can't resell those sketches. It's not like you're making prints. And although some may not agree, I can't think of any reason it would be unethical.

Well... There is a case of the Peni's.

Wendy Peni, the creator of Elfquest, had a problem at one point where she would be commissioned for an original Elf, which she did at a reasonable rate at one point... and then people would go and sell it on Ebay for 5 times what they paid for it the next day. Understandably, the Peni's were a bit miffed at this, and no longer do commission for nearly as little (actually, I'm not even sure they do them anymore at this point), and never for anything but their original characters anymore.

Now note, I think it was less about the reselling of art, and more of the fact that the person went and turned around THAT DAY, and exploited the artist. So, really, it's not completely applicable to this discussion, but I can see where some artist could have a serious issue.

People resell my stuff all the time, I don't care if someone resells it. I do take issue if someone reproduces it.

I keep an eye on the reselling when it happens and sometimes it prompts me to raise my commission rates :D

I've seen people re-sell my art before. They're perfectly within their rights to do so; I sold them the physical object, they in turn are free to do with the original what they please... EXCEPT make copies, but that's what "copyright" law governs.

Kensan Oni said:

Keovi said: I've never understood why people get up in arms when someone resells a commissioned or purchased image. Reselling the physical image in no way violates distribution rights, and the person DID buy the art.

Wouldn't saying you can't resell art you've bought be like saying it's unethical to sell a car you bought?

I can't think of any legal reason you can't resell those sketches. It's not like you're making prints. And although some may not agree, I can't think of any reason it would be unethical.

Well... There is a case of the Peni's.

Wendy Peni, the creator of Elfquest, had a problem at one point where she would be commissioned for an original Elf, which she did at a reasonable rate at one point... and then people would go and sell it on Ebay for 5 times what they paid for it the next day. Understandably, the Peni's were a bit miffed at this, and no longer do commission for nearly as little (actually, I'm not even sure they do them anymore at this point), and never for anything but their original characters anymore.

Now note, I think it was less about the reselling of art, and more of the fact that the person went and turned around THAT DAY, and exploited the artist. So, really, it's not completely applicable to this discussion, but I can see where some artist could have a serious issue.

It's kind of harsh, but perhaps the artist(s) were exploiting themselves by charging so little (based on what you say). If I found someone could sell one of my originals for five times what I charged to buy it, I'd raise my prices by at least that much :P

Another way to look at it is, what a great selling point. Buy my art, and not only will it not cost you money, but you'll actually earn money.

First I want to say this. I LOVE YOU !!!! Only because what you posted says so much about your personal character as an individual. You actually CARE and have the conscious to feel scummy about this. That says a lot about you.

As for the artwork, I have to echo... Its not for personal gain. There -shouldn't- be any issues.

BUT do try to at least contact as many of the artists as possible. Put up a single webpage with the final result of placing them all together.., and list everyone who you can remember. Make you intent public so that if anyone DOES have an issue they can say so, and work something out with you. Place a link to the page in blogs and on artists boards asking others to spread it out so that the artists you can't get a hold of can find out about this.

If by the time MFF rolls around (even if you wait until next year just to be sure), they have had the time to respond.

The money goes to charity and as long as you list everyone who has continbuted, you are given them the credit most desire. :)

That's my two cents. ;)